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Should I Stay or Go?
You answered my question about making a job change recently. After initially accepting the offer, I recanted and turned it down. Later that day the HR Manager left me a voicemail stating management really liked me and wanted to sweeten the offer. I called this morning. Instead of making an offer, she asked me what it would take to get me to come. I gave her a number that was 6% more than what Iwas offered, but still well within the stated salary range. She later sent an email saying she gave the proposal to management and that they were going to pursue other candidates. They didn't even make a counter offer, and said they really didn't think I wanted the job. I thought it was bizarre.
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Hello again,
Well, the reason HR always asks you to tell them what you want, is simply to see what your expectations are. Your expectations and the company's expectations just didn't mesh.
Be glad you found this out now, rather than down the road.
Also, the fact that you accepted the offer, then changed your mind back and forth, then asked for more than 5%... well, when I put it like that, hopefully you can see why they might think twice.
As for all the other things you mentioned in your feedback... nobody here reads minds. Had you made that case to the HR person before you said 6%, you may well have the job. Had you explained yourself here, you would have had different answers, but you failed to do so and expected us to read your mind. Few things are more important than good communication skills and the ability to explain yourself when you are interviewing. (Or asking questions on Advicenators.)
On a side note... your other question says: "...I would get a 10% salary increase."
... which makes me wonder what your motives in posting this here are. Are you simply trolling to see who you can leave abusive feedback for? If you were truly mystified by the turn of events, that has been answered by a number of people. I suggest you go through and apologize for abusing users who tried to help you, if you want to keep your account here. Fair warning.
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Your Feedback:
"My inferred question is: why did they ask me to give them a figure rather than tell me what they were willing to pay? My experience is substantial, so that should not have been a factor. This company does not give substantial bonuses and their 401k plan isn't very good, so salary was a major consideration for me. They told me there was opportunity for growth, but of course would not provide specifics. Plus, this job required a lot more hours than my current position. I was not being greedy at all. Why would anyone go to a more difficult job with little difference in compensation? Plus, the whole process was very fast. It didn't feel right. I bet they end up with a less qualified person who won't last a year and they end up spending considerably more money finding a replacement replacement that the $4k I asked for."
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Original answer:
There is no question here, but if one were to infer a question on your behalf, the answer is pretty straight forward... Your offer was within the salary range, but not the salary range they formulated when they gauged your experience relative to the position.
As someone who has hired (and fired) a few folks over the years, I can state with some certainty that this is what happened. I have also been the person who asked for just a touch more than the person making the offer was comfortable with... and funnily enough, they said the exact same thing you were told.
For the future, here is a good rule of thumb: At a new company, you might expect a 4% raise on a salaried position your first year, if you don't screw up too badly. 5% is pretty much tops for a first annual raise unless you are a rockstar who has made a major difference in the company. With this in mind, asking for 6% is more than they were planning on paying you a whole year from now.
A good suggestion for something they cover as a matter of course: If you have to move for the position, it is not at all unreasonable for you to ask that they cover moving costs as your new employer. Anything beyond that, and you look greedy.
As someone who has been on both sides of the HR desk, I know that 1% over the "greedy" mark, means you are just done. Interview is over. There are exceptions, of course, such as them recruiting a CEO that has a record of bringing companies back from near death, but other than those rare situations, asking for more than your first annual salary bump gets you round-filed.
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Maybe this was not meant to be. How do you feel?
ULO
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Well, I understand why they sort of gave up on you. I think you should've just accepted and once they saw your working abilities and your (hopefully good) skills, then you might've been able to compromise.
Best of luck!
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I can't find your question in my column and I am ashamed to say that I cannot remember at all what it was - but I really do apologise if I led you in the wrong direction. Hopefully you will still come to me for advice, you can privately email (rhiannon@the-neales.com) for a more indepth chat if you like.
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I'm sorry to hear that. That can be tough. I believe all things happen for a reason. I'm sure the job was great but you wanted a better salary than what they offered. I would just get up and move onto the next job. I'm working now, and I don't love my job but I do it because it pays the bills. Do what makes you happy!! Good luck!
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That's not bizzare. 6% more? May not seem like that much but it is! They're obviously going to go look for other just as qualified candidates that will work for the same amount of previously offered. I think you were being way too greedy.
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Bit bizarre indeed, but company recruitment policies can appear rather arcane to the outside observer. Plus there is often a fair bit of 'cat and mouse' play that goes on and you (or I should say 'we' meaning any applicant) cannot always be sure of what exactly are their motives and processes. As a pure guess, perhaps they were looking to negotiate terms and details of the position rather than just a bottom line salary figure. Perhaps expecting you to ask about what avenues of advancement would be available after, say a six month appraisal, for instance? A salary review based on that? They may have taken it that simply a reasonably modest salary increase showed only an interest in the cash, not the job? But it is only a guess. Also, when a firm are recruiting, it is often a very dynamic and fast-changing scene. A few applications (or even just one) can change the game in an instant. It might be an idea to keep this in mind for future exchanges with prospective employers. Questions and negotiations that suggest you are interested and ambitious and see it as a long-term engagement will tend to push the right buttons with management. More so than asking how much cash I can have...and how many days holiday do I get featuring at the top of your list. Your best bit of boxing-clever (as you might put it) is by reversing the role in your mind. If you were hiring for YOUR company, what would you like and hope for an applicant to say and ask? OK? Then tell them what you think they'll be wanting to hear!! Recruiting can look a devious process, but they are only really using all their available firepower to help make sure they hire the right person, so do not let a few seemingly bizarre outcomes put you off in any way. It doesn not mean the move or promotion WILL NOT happen. This one 'got away' and that's all. Good luck.
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Job isn't only about money. It's about satisfaction and amount of learning. Your reply to HR manager clearly showed that you were after money, and if offered better money by some other firm, you would leave this job also.
So, they didn't negotiate.
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I would call her or email her and ask exactly what is going on.Do they want you to take the job but felt like you weren't interested? Clear it up and see where that leads you :)
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I agree, it IS odd. In my humble opinion, they were fishing. I think that, basically, they're looking for someone with a specific skill set to suit their needs and once they have their selection of candidates, they're looking to see they can get for the least amount of money.
Also in my humble opinion, that is probably not a company for whom you would enjoy working.
Best regards.
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Go they are trying to get you to stay with out them making any other changes.
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MOVE on since they dont see the talant in you other people will.You tried once so it leaves you 1001 alternatives in your hands.Assume Abundance in opportunities and act like you already have the job and they will feel it off your vibe.I think this was the "bizzare" thing that happened.They just dont feel you are confident enough in yourself try in your next interviews or tryouts to be 10/10 in your passion and confidence.This is how a true manager feels like.Ask how would i feel if i was the most successful manager. AND ask yourself WHY do i deserve the job not how can i get it to get the passion im talking about.BEcause 80% is WHY 20% is HOW .
STAY STRONG
NICK
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Hmm, perhaps they were hoping that you wouldn't ask for an increased salary. They may be looking to pick someone from the list who will cost them the least amount of money. However, you shouldn't settle for less than what you think you deserve. I say weigh out the pros and cons and determine which choice will suit you best.
~Best of Luck!
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Im glad that you got the job offer, I think at the thought of them instantly accepting your offer to me shows that they really wanted you and that you were over qualified and the best they've seen. And maybe they said that they thought you wouldn't want the job is at the fact that they can't believe that they got someone as talented as you! Good luck and I wish you well on your new job and the beginning to your new journey!
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It's less bizarre than you'd think. Lol.
So... the way hiring works... I used to do all the hiring at my job, and I still act as a consult for the new hires.
First they look at your qualifications and how much you want. Based on qualifications, they decide if you're being reasonable, or how far over or under you're asking. If you're asking for an acceptable compensation for your paper qualification level, by their standards, then they make you a job offer.
What you don't often know is that while they're making that decision, they're also calculating other things... If they find you via headhunter, they add in that cost to their figures. They have to know you're worth it. They also calculate how much they're paying people in similar positions, and even related positions, because they want as little salary cost as they can manage.
So... it sounds like they liked you and you're qualified... but whatever you offered didn't fit into their figures and they think they can get similar quality for less money and hassle.
Sometimes, also, companies and hiring managers will say something like that to see if you'll drop your price. Because they want you... they just want to see exactly how cheaply they can get you.
If you think you'd be happy at the job, you can do a couple of things in response.
A, you can ask to talk to the hiring management for a real job proposal, because you'd like to work there. If they agree, you go in willing to negotiate. If they don't, that's just the end.
2, you can just call in with a lower wage. If they're interested, they should call you back fairly quickly because they'll think you're being a little desperate and want to snag you up before you discover you could make more money.
D, you can send a thank you letter. All it should say is that you thank them for the opportunity, express that you were really interested in working for them, and mention that if they're interested in you in the future to contact you.
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Not really sure what your question is here. Why did you turn the job down, was it because of pay? If so and you'd only accept it at 6% higher than they offered, then sure - you didn't really want the job unless they paid you more. Sounds like a fair enough comment from them. If you turned it down for some other reason that gives even more weight to the perception that you didn't really want the job. Does it really matter though? Move on, find something else :)
Edit: Your feedback to me was "Yes you idiot, I turned it down because it made no sense to move and start a new job. I would have lost money doing that". So you didn't really want the job. Yes? Still not really understanding what you are asking or what you are hoping to get out of this.
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Well it seems initially the management must have really liked you and thought of recruiting you as you would benefit the company.So they tried sweetening the offer. But when you gave them your desired number, they thought that you might pose a threat to management in terms of demands. You see ,they thought that you would ask for much less... And now they might be doing either of the two things: Pressurizing you into accepting the offer at a low salary.. or really looking for suitable candidates who will work more, but ask for less..
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Well, it's a little after the fact now but I would have told the HR manager, since she contacted YOU, that the ball was in their court and THEY need to put an offer on the table. It seems very strange that they told you they were willing to sweeten the pot and then ask YOU to make the offer. I imagine when you turned them down initially they would have gotten the idea you didn't want the job and yet they appeared willing to negotiate. Yes, it does seem a bit bizarre!Hopefully you really didn't want the job because I don't see any way to backtrack in this situation! I wish you best of luck with all your future endeavors!
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I will say don't go because is like they don't need you as much as they are saying or they are trying to bring you back without increase your salary. so I would say be cam. if they really need you they will accept your demands
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I'm not sure what to tell you. It is unclear to me why they made no counter offer and said they are pursuing other candidates when they wanted you to be there in the first place. If this job means a lot to you,do try to get it. If not,change it. I'm not really experienced in job matters since I'm still a student,but I'm trying to give good advice.
Best wishes,
Luchia94
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That is a bit bizarre. I would have thought they'd at least counter-offer. I'm sorry they started to look at other candidates instead. Perhaps if you're still interested, you could email them back with a slightly lower offer? Otherwise, I wish you luck finding another job.
Sincerely,
Panda
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Probably the act of turning it down after accepting had a good deal to do with management's decision. I would probably question an employee's interest after a move like that.
The HR manager might have really liked you, but her management, who probably didn't meet you, just saw you flip flopping and asking for more money and didn't think it worth their time.
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Well, when it comes to hiring, each and every company and decision maker seems to have their own approach to things. Who's to say what may have been going through their heads.
Is is possible they had you as a second choice and thought they could talk you down on the salary.
It could also be that they had planned to hire from within all along but by law have to advertise the job as open.
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I would email the manager and ask what they could offer you... At this point, what can it hurt? Even if you don't receive the monatary amount you want, other benefits may be available. Best of luck!
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If it's a career that makes you happy that will make you financially stable--I say go for it!
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Maybe you werent supposed to take that job and are to find something else thatll make you happier...everything happens for a reason
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